Then in the next breath they berate Catholics for the crucifix because they say. "HE is risen!". Yes he has risen but, did you not know that Christians are members of the body of Christ and if he has risen then we have too so upon death we will go to Heaven to be with him. We are not in the grave sleeping. We have consumed the body and blood of Jesus. We are of his body therefore we do go to Heaven therefore the Saints are not dead but, in Heaven. Therefore we may pray to them and ask them to intercede for us. Doesn't it say that "All of Heaven will rejoice over one sinner who repents"? Why would it say that if there were only Jesus and a few angels there?
Why do Bible only Christians say Catholics shouldn't pray to the Saints because they are dead people?events dont forget the 'all who believe in Him might not die but have everlasting life' quote
o and in REV it says something like "and the bowls were filled with the intercession of the holy ones"
edit for other answerers : apparently the people who say 'the bible doesnt mention saints' lack common sense. duh the bible doesnt mention saints, there was no one to die for christianity when the bible was written. revelation, the last written book, does though. interesting.
another edit:
its not so much praying to saints as its praying THRU saints.
no different than asking your friend to pray for you, considering they're not biblically dead.
Why do Bible only Christians say Catholics shouldn't pray to the Saints because they are dead people?home theatre opera theater
........."For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus"....1st Timothy 2:5.........Though you may be very sincere, the "Blesse Virgin Mary" CANNOT make intercession for you. 1st Timothy 2:5 couldn't be any clearer or to the point!......Jesus Christ is the MEDIATOR between god and mankind. The Catholics commit idolatry when the bow before a statue of Mary of rely upon Mary to intercede for them.........Mary is NO mediator or intercessor....she is just a woman. No dead saint or living Pope can mediate for you!!.........Though Catholics claim they are only honoring the dead saints and Mary, the truth of the matter is that they are obsessed with wicked idol worship. This is why the 2nd of the Ten Commandments is missing in their Catechism books. No saint of priest can reconcile your sinful heart to God. The ONLY way to obtain the righteousness of God is in Jesus Christ (2nd Corithians 5:17). There is ony ONE MEDIATOR.......Jesus Christ!.....It is a Biblical fact that the only mortal soul who has ever ascended into heaven is the Son of Man, Jesus Christ.........Everyone who has ever lived and died is still in the grave awaiting the second coming of Jesus Christ and the resurrection of the dead saints that will immediately follow........."Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep (in the grave), or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep (in the grave) in him. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly NOT PRECEDE those who have fallen asleep (in the grave). For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the achangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead (who's souls are asleep in the grave) in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.".....(1st Thessalonians 4:13-17)..........There are legions of angels in heaven rejoicing over repentant sinner, but that's all!.........Please do yourself a favor and study the "real" Bible, then you would know and prove to yourself that what I have told you is the truth.
Why do you become so angry defending your beliefs?
I am a born again christian and I do not believe everything the Catholic church says or does. I have my belief and I am fine with that. You have your belief and I am fine with that also.
Why are you so angry??
There is only one who can intercede for you, and that is Jesus Christ. It has nothing to do with who is in heaven. The saints CANNOT intercede for you. Neither can Mary. She has no power in heaven. The saints have NO power in heaven, and the belief that Jesus Christ is not the only intermediary between God and man is promoted in the practice of worshipping or praying to dead saints, who act as patrons and mediators. This practice ROBS Christ of His supremacy and centrality in God's redemptive plan. Worship and prayer to ANYONE other than God the Father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit are unbiblical and MUST be rejected.
Do not believe or practice the lies and false teachings of the catholic church. They teach things that go directly AGAINST Christ.
You can either repent, and be born again into worshipping in spirit and truth, which is what God wants of you, or you can believe a lie and be damned.
My family is catholic, Midge. Do not try to sell me on the lies of the Roman Catholic Church. I praise God daily that I am not lost in their false doctrine and fancy ceremonies. It is all they have to offer. I guess for some, it is enough.
I can't speak for others
saint's have no power
they were just servants obedient to God
Jesus has the power
acting now through the Holy Spirit
first of all we do not pray to the dead because they are just that. yes the believer is said to be asleep but they still cannot intercede for us. that is what Jesus and the Holy Spirit does
Romans 8:27
Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Only Jesus can intercede for us because He was sinless
Hebrews 7:26
26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens;
Because,as you have stated,they are dead.Jesus is alive and is the only person you should pray to.May Jesus bless.
If they rejected the false premises on both sides what would they bicker over then. Drop god and be kind .
We worship God our Heavenly Father and pray only to Him.
The saints who are alive on the earth are not in heaven. On that fact alone your argument falls flat. But that's not all.
The Bible makes clear that those who are dead, are not in heaven, but in their graves in the earth (Ecclesiastes 9:5 -- "For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing"; Psalms 115:17 -- "The dead do not praise the Lord, Nor any who go down into silence"). It even refers to the "dead in Christ" as asleep, not alive and awake in heaven. And Jesus made it plain that no one has risen to heaven. Peter also said the same thing when he said David (a dead saint) is still in his grave over a month after Jesus was raised from the dead.
Though the saints who have died, are alive in promise, they are yet dead in form.
Twisted logic is what Peter was writing about when he declared that people twist the Scriptures to their own destruction.
The Bible is also clear on the fact that the saints will rise from the dead ***when Christ returns*** to the earth, not before. So, once again, they will not be in heaven but on earth with Jesus Christ when life is restored to them.
And where do you get the very flawed idea that there are only "a few angels?"
Rev 5:11 -- Then I looked, and I heard the voice of MANY ANGELS around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; AND THE NUMBER OF THEM WAS TEN THOUSAND TIMES TEN THOUSAND, AND THOUSANDS OF THOUSANDS. (See also: Psalms 68:17, Daniel 7:10, Mt 26:53)
As for praying to the dead -- would you pray to a rock, or the wind or a dry leaf? Would any of these answer your prayer? It is the same with praying to dead people; they can neither hear your prayer nor answer.
I think you misunderstand where we are coming from when we say that you should not pray to Saints.
It's not because they are dead people, although that is a reality. Yes they are dead and in Heaven ... they are not here and can no longer hear you or see you. They do not hear your prayers.
But the main reason is that you are worshipping something other than God and we all know that is a BIG no-no. Why do you feel it necessary to use an intermediary when all you need do is bow your head and mutter "help" from your soul? He'll hear you and He'll help you. To us, it's as rude as if you refused to speak to your mother, and instead made all of your siblings ask her for things.
That is the real reason why we know it is wrong to pray to a person. Only God deserves our prayer, that's what prayer is ... conversation with God.
They say that you shouldn't pray to departed saints because no where in the Bible do you find a person praying to anyone besides God or trying to get assistance from a departed saint except in this passage where the results are far from favorable.
1 Samuel 28:7 Then Saul said to his servants, "Seek out for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her." And his servants said to him, "Behold, there is a medium at En-dor." 8 So Saul disguised himself and put on other garments and went, he and two men with him. And they came to the woman by night. And he said, "Divine for me by a spirit and bring up for me whomever I shall name to you." 9 The woman said to him, "Surely you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the necromancers from the land. Why then are you laying a trap for my life to bring about my death?" 10 But Saul swore to her by the LORD, "As the LORD lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing." 11 Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" He said, "Bring up Samuel for me." 12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul." 13 The king said to her, "Do not be afraid. What do you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I see a god coming up out of the earth." 14 He said to her, "What is his appearance?" And she said, "An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe." And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage. 15 Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" Saul answered, "I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do." 16 And Samuel said, "Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has turned from you and become your enemy? 17 The LORD has done to you as he spoke by me, for the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David. 18 Because you did not obey the voice of the LORD and did not carry out his fierce wrath against Amalek, therefore the LORD has done this thing to you this day. 19 Moreover, the LORD will give Israel also with you into the hand of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me. The LORD will give the army of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines."
Sounds like you need to read the Book again.
Before Jesus Christ died for our sins and opened the gates of heaven there were no saints in heaven. Therefore there are no Old Testament writings that would mention them.
Very few of the new Christians died before most of the New Testament was written. Therefore there is little in the Bible about asking saints to pray for us.
However the last book of the Bible does talk about the saints in heaven praying.
Revelation 5:8: Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones.
Revelation 8:3-4: He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne. The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel.
The Holy Spirit guided the early Church in many things not explained in the Bible including how does the Body of Christ (believers) living on Earth relate to the Body of Christ (saints) living in heaven. We are still one Body.
Catholics share the belief in the Communion of Saints with many other Christians, including the Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Episcopal, and Methodist Churches.
The Communion of Saints is the belief where all saints are intimately related in the Body of Christ, a family. When you die and go to heaven, you do not leave this family.
Everyone in heaven or on their way to heaven are saints, you, me, my deceased grandmother, Mary the mother of Jesus, and Mother Teresa.
As part of this family, you may ask your family and friends living here on earth to pray for you. Or, you may also ask the Blessed Virgin Mary, Saint Andrew, or your deceased grandmother living in heaven to pray for you.
Prayer to saints in heaven is simple communication, not worship.
And prayer to the saints is optional not required.
With love in Christ.
comeon we didnt but you did
Because they are people , no different than you and I. They are in heaven true enough, but they are not God and we don't pray to those who are not God. Whereas we believe that Jesus, is God in the flesh, the 2nd person of the trinity
The saints are in heaven with God, that doesn't mean they ARE God
Yeah all worship should be for God alone....but Catholics don't worship saints! They only ask saints to pray to God FOR them. Saint's can give anything, but like anybody on earth, they can pray for someone else.
The Bible says there is one mediator between God and man, Christ Jesus. We are to worship and pray to God, not a man (or woman) or angels or anyone or anything else. Dead people may be in heaven but they are still just people, not God.
Jesus is THE ONLY INTERCESSOR I NEED BETWEEN ME AND GOD, OK? If you want to worship saint bob and saint betty or whoever , go ahead, but it's a bunch of bull and an insult to what I believe the bible says about Jesus dying for my sins.
christians only pray to jesus and god while catholics pray to idols, dead ppl etc
Catholics should not pray to the saints because they can't hear you, because they ARE dead, (and depending how much Biblical knowledge you have, you will realize that people have not yet been ressurected into eternity). We are to pray to God, not to dead Church patrons...
And the crucifix does look quite depressing, we should be thankful that he died for us, but also remember that he rose again. The crucifix makes little sense because Jesus overcame the cross and is not there anymore...
God forbids communication with the dead.
Deut 18:10-12 And do not let your people practice fortune-telling or sorcery, or allow them to interpret omens, or engage in witchcraft. Or cast spells, or function as mediums or psychics, or CALL FORTH THE SPIRITS OF THE DEAD. Anyone who does these things is an object of horror and disgust to the Lord.
Protestants do not believe in temporal punishment or the Treasury of Merit. Therefore, the contribution of saints to our salvation is historical and foundational, while the contribution of Christ to our salvation is ongoing and active. And so we remember, respect, and study the lives of the saints, but look to Christ as our sole intercessor.
They believe in that bogus rapture doctrine that is not in the Bible so they believe that we will all be judged on one day. They do not realize that the saints are already in Heaven with God. If they have no real Love for God's Mother Mary why should we expect them to have any respect for the other Saints? Peace be with you
I lutheran and i know that we have saints too .... but i dont think we should worship thim and pray to them...maybe thank god for them but not worship them
Praying to someone is a form of worship. This was not done in the earth church at all.
The bible says, "there is one mediator between God and man, Jesus the Christ"
The bible also says, "The dead know not what goes on under the sun." They don't hear you. ONLY God/ Jesus is omnipresent so they can hear you ONLY. Mary doesn't and neither do the saints. The saints ARE in heaven but I truly believe it is a sin to pray to them or Mary.
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All prayer and worship should be for God and God only
